Comment on Resignation of OTW Director

  1. Prismatic Bell (PrismaticBell) Mon 22 May 2023 03:58PM UTC

    They said three years ago they were going to address some truly disgusting racism on the site. So far they’ve…added a block button that was already in development when they made that promise. Now they’ve said they’ll hire a diversity counselor “in the next five years.” So eight years we’re making creators of color wait to have their concerns addressed? Unacceptable.

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    1. LordiTheRailgun Mon 22 May 2023 04:01PM UTC

      Uh-huh, I see. Thank you for the answers.

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    2. thewonderofpandora Tue 23 May 2023 01:35AM UTC

      Lol the second they waste money on diversity bs is the second I stop donating.

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      1. PerseusRising Tue 23 May 2023 01:49AM UTC

        Wow. Okay. Thank you for making it very obvious you hate people of color and LGBT people, by calling accommodating them "diversity bs"

        They already have a diversity consultant on staff, by the way, so they already "wasted money" on making sure minorities aren't harassed here. I'm sure they'll survive just fine without a bigot's money.

        Last Edited Tue 23 May 2023 02:00AM UTC

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        1. thewonderofpandora Tue 23 May 2023 02:04AM UTC

          Case in point right here people.

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          1. PerseusRising Tue 23 May 2023 02:07AM UTC

            Again, thanks for making your hatred of lgbt people and people of color like me very, painfully obvious. There is no "case in point", you just hate it when people acknowledge minorities exist and are people too.

             

            Maybe try spreading your far-right garbage on a site that isn't filled with PoC and LGBT people?

            AO3 is the worst possible site to be a bigot on.

            Last Edited Tue 23 May 2023 02:15AM UTC

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        3. Prismatic Bell (PrismaticBell) Tue 23 May 2023 02:23AM UTC

          It’s fine, I’ve been meaning to sign up for a few years and keep forgetting (This Is Your Brain On ADHD). I’ll be happy to fill the gap.

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          1. PerseusRising Tue 23 May 2023 02:25AM UTC

            Hell yeah, I'll do the same. Two cool as hell people are far better than one bigot.

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            1. Prismatic Bell (PrismaticBell) Tue 23 May 2023 02:31AM UTC

              I’d hardly call myself cool as hell, but I’ve been in fandom for twenty*coughcoughwhatwasthat* years. I’ll fight like hell before I cede it to that riffraff.

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      3. Prismatic Bell (PrismaticBell) Tue 23 May 2023 02:22AM UTC

        Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

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      4. FullOfMicroplastics Tue 23 May 2023 02:34AM UTC

        Unironically, this comment made me remember that I should probably sign up for monthly donations now that I have a job and use the archive regularly. Thank you!

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      5. pretty_weird_ideas Tue 23 May 2023 03:01AM UTC

        Reminder to keep donating to OTW if you want proper change and to speak your mind when necessary so that the policies that you want on a site you personally contribute to should be enacted! Also, remember to vote! The entire point of this organization being open to the public was to allow for the fan archive to actually service ALL FANS. It's fine if YOU don't want to center diversity but it's clear that OTW wants to, and has promised to. Even on their previous hiring post, they're asking distinctly for diverse voices and volunteers. You're fighting with OTW instead of for OTW when you fight against and undermine the promises that they make for diversity and inclusion on their website.

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      6. OfMonstersAndWerewolves Tue 23 May 2023 11:04AM UTC

        This isn't an airport, you don't have to announce your departure.

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        1. BritHistorian Tue 23 May 2023 03:00PM UTC

          Moebius, Gardens of Aedena

          I've never heard this before, but I'll definitely be using it in the future. ^_^

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    4. VulcansDarkest Tue 23 May 2023 02:08AM UTC

      It's not a massively rich social media site. I think given how quickly Facebook and Twitter roll things out, people forget that development of software and changing already extremely fragile code takes a lot of time and resources. It's not perfect, but it's a fandom archive, not a billion dollar industry. Expecting quick turnaround times from a board of volunteers that's constantly having to deal with harassment, and holding everything together, is absolutely absurd.

      If you want to change things, volunteer your time. See how complicated and nuanced the issues are. Then find solutions instead of harassing people and complaining about things that they are working to change.

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      1. pretty_weird_ideas Tue 23 May 2023 03:44AM UTC

        While this is true for software issues, I would like to point out that there is no sign of there being any noticeable progress on hiring the diversity consultant for the OTW. Even proof that the person in question is hired as well as a line up of their tasks (none of which should include touching code at all) would be helpful. A single hire from a pre-established firm should not take 3 years (they promised to hire one in 2020, and they have simply only stated that two volunteers were searching for them). The promises start to feel hollow.

        While coding is a massive upheaval for the site, the diversity consultant promise that the OTW in 2020 that are yet to be fulfilled is not coding-based. Asking for something that was promised is not harassment. A single comment that aligns with "Please hire the diversity consultant, we need one. Here's why we need one..." is not at all harassment. And should not be grouped in with such.

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          1. PerseusRising Tue 23 May 2023 05:34AM UTC

            Trans Rights are Human Rights, bigot.

            Last Edited Tue 23 May 2023 05:39AM UTC

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        3. MalcontentCatboy Tue 23 May 2023 05:07AM UTC

          What exactly do you want this "consultant" to do? The demands seem to be angling for censorship. Hell, the activists calling for the "consultant" are actively attempting to harass authors on this site for writing stories that offend them.

          We don't need that.

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          1. Kereudio Tue 23 May 2023 05:22AM UTC

            The OTW already promised they would three years ago. It is no longer a matter of if they will or should, they already said they would, the problem now is holding them to that promise and asking for, at the bare minimum, an update, all the while rampant racist abuse continues daily on this site.

            If your response to being informed that racist abuse - NOT merely potentially offensive fiction (even egregiously offensive fiction such as holocaust fic) - is to wring your hands about censorship, when no one has called for such, I worry about the people of color in your life who have to watch you put aside their needs in favor of your fragility.

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          2. MalcontentCatboy Tue 23 May 2023 05:25AM UTC

            Regarding Solrise's comment, who has blocked me before responding in an attempt to silence my response:

            People in this exact comment section are demanding stories be censored on this site. So much for "no one".

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            1. PerseusRising Tue 23 May 2023 05:36AM UTC

              Never made any attempt to dispute any of the claims made against you, I see. Almost like you are a bigot and don't like being called out.

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            2. Hi_Im_Envy Tue 23 May 2023 05:51AM UTC

              ENVIE

              crazy that you two are fighting so hard to protect racism when its clearly the minority viewpoint, i thought you guys were all about hating minorities and stuff

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              1. MalcontentCatboy Tue 23 May 2023 05:55AM UTC

                I am against any effort to censor the contents of fan works on this website, including back-door efforts. I don't care about anything other than that. Libelous accusations against me are irrelevant to that clearly stated position.

                Let me pointedly ask, then: are you calling for the censorship of fan works on this website?

                I also do not know who the other "two" is. I have been speaking for myself alone in this comment section as well as those in the past.

                Last Edited Tue 23 May 2023 05:56AM UTC

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                1. Hi_Im_Envy Tue 23 May 2023 06:01AM UTC

                  ENVIE

                  yeah im calling for the censorship of hate speech the same way i call for the censorship of hate speech in real life? there is a massive difference between works that deliberately and overtly target and demean specific groups and individuals and works that simply have offensive content and if you are unable to tell the difference then i pity you i think.
                  is it a "libelous accusation" to say that you wish to protect racism from being censored on this site? because thats what youve just said and i dont see how its irrelevant, if this is something you actually care about then i dont see why you would feel embarrassed or slighted by that statement, you should be shouting it from the rooftops. "its important that racist works are allowed to stay on ao3" "racism should be allowed here" etc. etc.

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                  1. MalcontentCatboy Tue 23 May 2023 06:05AM UTC

                    I'm against all censorship because I know how censorship works, especially in the modern age. Nuance is professed; only the "most extreme" cases. Next thing, word filters are in place, people are banned for implications. You act like I haven't seen this before time and time again.

                    Thank you, however, for proving my post absolutely correct that this "end racism" movement is about censoring fan works. We can put that to rest, as if it needed debated when the foundational post of this movement started by complaining about a fan work using the word "savage" in it.

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                  2. (7 more comments in this thread)

          4. switchwitchbitch Wed 24 May 2023 01:45AM UTC

            Ideally, a consultant would consult on ways to make AO3 more friendly to users and staff who are minorities, and to encourage more fan works on the archive by and for those people. Like, if fans of a certain race feel there's no point posting work here because they'll just get boundless racist harassment in comments, AO3 is failing in its goal as this Library of Alexandria But For Fans they've touted thenselves as. Idk what that specifically looks like, but if we have tag wranglers, why not build a team of comment wranglers? So the onus is not put so much on the writers themselves to deal with the brunt of the racist harassment. (Again -- Potentially terrible idea, no clue how it would work anyway, but this is why I am not a diversity consultant and they should hire someone who is). Maybe people want a "This is Racist Lol" warning tag, idk. Maybe they want mandatory training on diversity issues for volunteers. Again, idfk that's why they need to find someone who can tell them what the realistic goals are and how to move forward.

            Censoring fan works I disagree with. On other sites maybe, but this is meant to archive fandom. I think that moderating the way people engage with works and writers is fine, though. It's not inhibiting anyone's free speech to stop them from comment trolling works with cross-racial ships or whatever the issue happens to be.

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            1. urtin Thu 25 May 2023 03:43PM UTC

              While the tag is a good idea, it’s impossible to make users to put these forcefully. Even existing labels for content warnings, if expanded, can be chosen not to used. It’s always about the users, not the archive.

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              1. switchwitchbitch Thu 25 May 2023 08:28PM UTC

                It's true, and I don't think people should be forced to put archive warnings if they really don't want to. I feel like the option would be nice to have for readers to filter, but also feel like it would be a hollow gesture that doesn't solve any harassment issues writers face

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